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 Temat: Compact Drag racing Cup at Santapod 2010!
PostNapisane: niedziela, 25 października 2009, 14:51 
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Dołączył: wtorek, 10 czerwca 2008, 09:29
Posty: 40
Last week I have met with David Lloyd-Jones, Santapod raceway general manager. I suggested to him to arrange an additional Sort Compact contest involving race cars from the East Europe and Scandinavia as a Compact Car Drag race Cup to be held during the race season, which last for at least three days. Three days, as everyone is aware,it is necessary due to weather and possible technical failures, to allow time for repair, and, of course, racing on dry track. David suggested 7-9th of May, Perfomance, Tuning and Modified Show event. About event info can be read here: http://www.ptmshow.co.uk The event has been going on for several years, and it is is popular among the compact race car fans, and its rules, classes are according to driving wheels and the car "streetability". Lastly, if I understand correctly that the same event includes several different Cup competitions, including the Japanese HKS series stage, European sports compact competition, which are designed exclusively for European automotive brands, car tech info and rules can be found here: http://www.ptmshow.co.uk / european.php Thus, in parallel with the other already existing competition rules, we want to organize a European Cup of Compact Drag racing, according to ET index , without driven wheel, body, tire size and engine cc or fuel limitation, by introducing a mere 6 cylinder and 3 rotor maximum limits. Today it seems that it should be four indexes - up to 11.9 by 10.9 by 9.9 by 8.9 seconds and 1 / 4 mile ET, but it could be discussed and other decisions taken by community opinion. Also possibly will be issued to up to 0.5 permitted "Brake Out", ie participant may run faster than the index of classes and remain in the class. Prize fund will be distributed in ascending order of indexes - a slower Class Winner will receive lesser prizes, faster - higher. Figures will be published later this year. Organisers will invite every participant personaly, those wishing to participate will have to pay a deposit which will regain after the initial launch. In addition, participants have to fulfill a range of other voluntary - to prepare for yourself and team information, which will be published and http://www.degantysratai.lt http://www.santapod.com "Entry List" - a participant list. Today for me personally the potential participants from the Baltic seems to be these people:

LT: 1. Jezi Chmelevski(low 9s) 2. Giedrius Jurevicius(high 9s) 3. Aivars Stikelis(low 10s) 4. Savickij, Edmund(mid 10s), 5. Mindaugas Beniušis(high 10s) 6. Paulius Vaškelis(mid 10s) 7. Gintas Laukys(low 12s) 8. Ovidijus Tylenis(12s) 9. Kieras Martynas(low 12s), 10. Audrius S2(12s) 11. Andzej Nosevic(10s) 12. Yevgeny BACHOV(high 9s) 13. Mindaugas Samuisis(mid 9s) 14. Arturas Pusnis:)(high 12s) 15. Soldatenko(low 11s)? 16th Algis Dargis(mid 12s) 17. Panevezio Corsa (mid 12s) 18. Romas S4(mid 11s)? 19th Having someone from the old lancia's - Alexandras Savenkovas, maybe Geras Dede old red girl? What else? Ideas welcome.

LV: 1. Artiom BMW(low 11s) 2. Ilmars S2(high 9s) 3. Revolution Evo (low 10s) 4. Agris BMW(high 11s), 5. Raimonds Burokevič Corsa(high 12s) 6. Nissan Skyline GTR? 7. Green E30?

EE: 1. Viljar Nissan 300ZX( 9s) 2. Markel Voit (low 9s) 3. Andrey Shabalin( 11s), 4. Kaido BMW(high8s), 5. Opel Kadett V6(12s) 6. Pontiac Fierro(high 12s) 7. Pontiac Firebird V6? 8. Yellow CRX (high 12s). Other?

PL: 1. Vitold Civic FWD Turbo(high 9s) 2. Arek RS4 (low 9s) Other fast FWD / RWD / AWD faster than 12 sec 1 / 4 mile?

We also currently talking with the Swedish compact car driver on the possibilities to have participants from Scandinavia, Holland and other European countries.Also I dont have many direct contacts with Hungarian and Chezch drag racers, or Russian, Belorus, and Ukraine (who needs visas to enter uk), but everybody is welcome to join community and discuss posibilities of entering event together.

It is very possible, that at the same event will be two competitions running different rules - one of them - under-wheel drive, our - by the ET Index. This will help to register a numerous competitor list, with no additional track or other fees! In addition, we organize transport, and try to find a sponsor who is wholly or partly offset the race car travel expenses. This may be a ship containers, may be car trailers, or trucks. Teams and fans travel will also being organized for group travel - we are negotiating with the carriers for a special price - since the mid-week travel may be We're gonna get that good fares for travel by busses. Also early entry list could make it possible to arrange low price airplane tickets. We will make every effort to obtain the lowest possible participant teams and race car transport fares from All Baltics and other east and scandinavian countries.

Residence on the track will be in tents or camper. There are the food,beverages, beers and night club at the track. I have idea of live music bands come from Lithuania, Latvia and other Baltic countries, organizing the concert for UK resident event guests.

All those who are interested in my ideas, and you would like to participate,help with rules, organising travel, sponsor or view events, please email me i andrius@degantysratai.lt

All comments and sugestions welcome, in english please.We discuss rules today at:

http://forum.degantysratai.lt/viewtopic.php?t=985


Góra
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 Temat: Re: Compact Drag racing Cup at Santapod 2010!
PostNapisane: poniedziałek, 26 października 2009, 10:11 
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Dołączył: poniedziałek, 10 maja 2004, 20:08
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interesting idea :)
but this time SSS needs more time and work to prepare 1/4 mile season in Poland (making much more events next year)

looking forward I am convinced that someone from Poland will go there, just for the ride

_________________
http://www.apispower.pl

9,93 ET (N2O 1-5), Biała Podlaska 12.06.2005
9,45 ET (bez N2O), Krems 13.09.2008
S4 - coś jakby kombi


Góra
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 Temat: Re: Compact Drag racing Cup at Santapod 2010!
PostNapisane: wtorek, 27 października 2009, 00:22 
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Dołączył: wtorek, 10 czerwca 2008, 09:29
Posty: 40
I think, if this idea become reality, in few years it may become a cup of few rounds. And in this case I dont see any better connection at any other baltic case than poland-uk...So it might be also in Your interest to help us here, because who knows - maybe somedays Youd want to see these people at Your track... :roll:


Góra
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 Temat: Re: Compact Drag racing Cup at Santapod 2010!
PostNapisane: wtorek, 27 października 2009, 10:01 
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Dołączył: poniedziałek, 10 maja 2004, 20:08
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sure we want co-operate, give us the time please,
at the moment we working on the new deal with few countries too,
let you know :)

we always use ET+RT results, this is the only way to improve competition, ET is boring for the visitors because no matter who is finishing first

_________________
http://www.apispower.pl

9,93 ET (N2O 1-5), Biała Podlaska 12.06.2005
9,45 ET (bez N2O), Krems 13.09.2008
S4 - coś jakby kombi


Góra
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 Temat: Re: Compact Drag racing Cup at Santapod 2010!
PostNapisane: wtorek, 27 października 2009, 22:20 
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Dołączył: wtorek, 10 czerwca 2008, 09:29
Posty: 40
You misunderstand me, OZ. ET index rules are not handycap or bracket, however you call it. ET index is certain ET+RT, witch is maximum given for class. If the car runs faster than class index, it goes to higher class. This way You dont need any wheel drive or cc rules. RT always matters. And winner is first to cross finish line - the same as anywhere else. Some rules dont permit brakeout(index overcome) in qualifications, and permit limited brakeout in finals. Some permit breakout in qualif and finals - fixed like X= 0.4 or 0.5 second(0.5 tree+XRT), some - permit brakeout exactly of size of RT. Say if you do RT 0.8 for sportsman tree(0.5 tree+0.3 driver RT), then you can brakeout like 0.3 second at finishline, and this is ok. Index rules exist for ages, and there are many options how to use them.
Regards
Andrius


Góra
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 Temat: Re: Compact Drag racing Cup at Santapod 2010!
PostNapisane: środa, 28 października 2009, 11:14 
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Dołączył: poniedziałek, 10 maja 2004, 20:08
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sorry but the time class generally stinks
ET index is wrong, only ET+RT works properly for drivers, visitors and first of all - competition

btw. I wrote about ET+RT refering to FDW/RWD/AWD etc. groups :)

_________________
http://www.apispower.pl

9,93 ET (N2O 1-5), Biała Podlaska 12.06.2005
9,45 ET (bez N2O), Krems 13.09.2008
S4 - coś jakby kombi


Góra
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 Temat: Re: Compact Drag racing Cup at Santapod 2010!
PostNapisane: środa, 28 października 2009, 15:22 
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Dołączył: środa, 28 października 2009, 14:46
Posty: 21
I hope you guys don't mind me trampling all over your discussion - what with me being a first day newbie here. Can you explain to me why the RT needs to be included in anything? If you have index racing (Super Gas, Super Comp, Super Street etc) or bracket racing (Super Pro ET, Pro ET etc) ... surely, the RT has nothing to do with anything except producing the odd hole-shot win. How can anyone dial in their car when the RT is included in the racing measurement? They do it like that (ET plus RT = Total time) here in Croatia, seems crazy to me. Am I missing something?

Paul


Góra
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 Temat: Re: Compact Drag racing Cup at Santapod 2010!
PostNapisane: środa, 28 października 2009, 17:25 
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Dołączył: poniedziałek, 10 maja 2004, 20:08
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SSS is taking ET+RT (sum ET and RT) to our, polish 1/4 mile results
for instance: http://www.sss.org.pl/timingdb.php?view=270909
We do not organize bracket in Poland, not yet (we have no time during the event - to many drivers :) )

_________________
http://www.apispower.pl

9,93 ET (N2O 1-5), Biała Podlaska 12.06.2005
9,45 ET (bez N2O), Krems 13.09.2008
S4 - coś jakby kombi


Góra
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 Temat: Re: Compact Drag racing Cup at Santapod 2010!
PostNapisane: środa, 28 października 2009, 21:40 
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Dołączył: wtorek, 10 czerwca 2008, 09:29
Posty: 40
OZ napisał(a):
sorry but the time class generally stinks
ET index is wrong, only ET+RT works properly for drivers, visitors and first of all - competition

btw. I wrote about ET+RT refering to FDW/RWD/AWD etc. groups :)

this is everything right, because it is due to special in bad meaning local track scene. You and us here in east are drag racing in off-road environment.That's why we need wheel drive classes (awd always superior on dirty tracks), and that's why we cant race bracket or index - we never run any constant ET, and we cant plan finish line properly. If You come to proper tracks, awd becomes absolutely useless, and once you manage not to brake your axles or other stuff, You can plan your ET little by little. Fwd - yes, this is the only special class actualy, because it is pervert design for drag racing from its nature.
If you take worldwide drag racing, bracket and et racing is most popular racing and none of other even comes close to it by number of competitors. So I think this is a bit overconfidence to think it stinks or other kind of bad. Also it is very good for show, because you can race very different vehickles in fair way.


Góra
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 Temat: Re: Compact Drag racing Cup at Santapod 2010!
PostNapisane: środa, 28 października 2009, 22:00 
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Dołączył: wtorek, 10 czerwca 2008, 09:29
Posty: 40
ribaric napisał(a):
I hope you guys don't mind me trampling all over your discussion - what with me being a first day newbie here. Can you explain to me why the RT needs to be included in anything? If you have index racing (Super Gas, Super Comp, Super Street etc) or bracket racing (Super Pro ET, Pro ET etc) ... surely, the RT has nothing to do with anything except producing the odd hole-shot win. How can anyone dial in their car when the RT is included in the racing measurement? They do it like that (ET plus RT = Total time) here in Croatia, seems crazy to me. Am I missing something?

Paul

All bracket races are about the first to finish line. Dial in is always including RT. Dial in time is always time from start line to finish line theoreticaly you must run. That is the rules of this funny game.
Well, basicaly, small cc racers in our part of the world are targeted to very close to the edge tunning. And downboosting for stability in et's often looks silly, because most tend to race against the time. In the western drag racing, many many people drag race for fun for ages, not pushing itslef to the edge. Moderate sportsman class racers come to the race track with families and race all day long in area of 12 second, and have bbq fun, simply having a good time with good company.
Bracket for us is too early yet.


Góra
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 Temat: Re: Compact Drag racing Cup at Santapod 2010!
PostNapisane: środa, 28 października 2009, 23:04 
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Dołączył: środa, 28 października 2009, 14:46
Posty: 21
I probaly don't understand some of this but I will try....

If the race tracks are dirty and do not have grip/traction .... how does adding in the RT help? The RT is just as unpredictable on a bad track as the ET.. No? By adding them together you are making the unpredictable even more unpredictable it seems to me.

If you want to dial in 12 seconds, or even slower, then do it. Plenty of bracket racers in the USA race every weekend without stressing their equipment. Some classes are designed to be low cost - they don't allow trans-brakes, throttle stops, delay boxes, stutter boxes .... nothing!

I watched drag racing at Santa Pod for 15 years. I always wanted to race a car but the categories always changed and I didn't have money to build a car which may not fit into a class if the rules changed. Then came bracket racing and I bought a 10 second T-bucket, that was 1994 and our class (10.00 to 12.99) had 7 cars. In 1996, we had over 32 cars and had to hold eliminations over two days. Everything was stable so we bought a dragster and ran in the 7-second class (Super Pro ET) and ran that for 5 years. Both cars are still running in the brackets with their new owners. I'm sure bracket racing will come to dominate everywhere - sooner or later.

You can see I'm an opinionated old git! Sorry.


Góra
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 Temat: Re: Compact Drag racing Cup at Santapod 2010!
PostNapisane: środa, 28 października 2009, 23:36 
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Dołączył: wtorek, 10 czerwca 2008, 09:29
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:lol: ok. Now explain to me - you dial in 10 seconds. Your opponent dials in 11. You launch a second past him by tree. But if RT doesnt matter, You can stay on start line for another second - is it that You are saying here? Because if RT no matter, whats a point to do it then? And after two sec you launch, and come a second pas opponent to finish line. And what? You are winner? By what rule? How do You estimate Your winner by not meaning RT? or..maybe You mean not to taking RT error to established dial in? :lol: Its funny, we just discussed that posibility with Bjorn two weeks ago, to permit brake out in index classes in size of same run RT. But we dont know if we can do it with timing system automaticaly. Otherwise it could cause a lot of confuse for racing procedure.


Góra
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 Temat: Re: Compact Drag racing Cup at Santapod 2010!
PostNapisane: czwartek, 29 października 2009, 09:49 
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Dołączył: środa, 28 października 2009, 14:46
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I think we are agreeing here. I am saying that the RT is vital - but only for winning ther race. The dial in (or index limit) should be calculated ONLY on the ET and bot on Total time (ET + RT).

So, If I dial 11 secs, you dial 10 secs - I get 1 sec head start on the tree. If we both run EXACTLY to our dial, then the better RT will win the race. The dial-in will show only the ET, the clocks on the track will calculate ET, the break-out rule will apply only to ET .... RT has nothing to do with any of that. It's still first to the finish line will win (if no break-out).

I'm sorry I can't do this in Polish, maybe we are saying the same thing?


Góra
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 Temat: Re: Compact Drag racing Cup at Santapod 2010!
PostNapisane: czwartek, 29 października 2009, 10:21 
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Dołączył: poniedziałek, 10 maja 2004, 20:08
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degantysratai is from Lithuania :)

_________________
http://www.apispower.pl

9,93 ET (N2O 1-5), Biała Podlaska 12.06.2005
9,45 ET (bez N2O), Krems 13.09.2008
S4 - coś jakby kombi


Góra
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 Temat: Re: Compact Drag racing Cup at Santapod 2010!
PostNapisane: sobota, 31 października 2009, 14:42 
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Dołączył: wtorek, 10 czerwca 2008, 09:29
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ribaric napisał(a):
I think we are agreeing here. I am saying that the RT is vital - but only for winning ther race. The dial in (or index limit) should be calculated ONLY on the ET and bot on Total time (ET + RT).

So, If I dial 11 secs, you dial 10 secs - I get 1 sec head start on the tree. If we both run EXACTLY to our dial, then the better RT will win the race. The dial-in will show only the ET, the clocks on the track will calculate ET, the break-out rule will apply only to ET .... RT has nothing to do with any of that. It's still first to the finish line will win (if no break-out).

I'm sorry I can't do this in Polish, maybe we are saying the same thing?

Yes, we are saying same thing.Except that withdrawing RT from dial in, You withdraw possibility to to plan finish line with rt if You know what I mean. But generaly its all clear, and maybe an issue for future discussions, not todays.


Góra
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